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One thing I don't like about #Signal is that it only supports one mobile device per account. I know they want to make it easy for the average user. But for someone who has two phones, it's very limiting.
That's why I prefer #Matrix. Adding another device and decrypting all existing messages doesn't even feel so clunky anymore.
@sesivany did you tried Delta Chat? it also support several devices and several accounts in the very same device.
@spla You're going around and spamming every thread about Signal promoting some obscure messenger that is inherently less secure than Signal, because it lacks forward secrecy, cryptographic deniability, as well as post-quantum encryption. You're also spreading misinformation about the Signal backend being proprietary: https://mastodont.cat/@spla/114007636221905384
@Andromxda letting people know there are other options and expressing your opinion is not "sending spam" or now anyone that doesn't agree with you in how perfect and "state of the art" is #Signal is a spammer to you?
#DeltaChat is not an "obscure messenger", says the fanboy of a messenger that even makes you solve a CAPTCHA puzzle on registration and make misleading blog posts about how Signal "doesn't depend on phone numbers now" that everyone misinterpret and spread fake news
says the fanboy of a messenger
First of all, I'm not a fanboy of any messenger, I just follow the recommendations of industry experts. And I want a messenger that is actually suitable for normies. Neither Matrix, XMPP + OMEMO or whatever the currently recommended protocol extension for E2EE is, nor Delta Chat is a good and normie-friendly replacement for WhatsApp or iMessage.
messenger that even makes you solve a CAPTCHA puzzle on registration
What's wrong with a CAPTCHA? It is necessary, just like the phone number requirement, in order to avoid spam. A problem that Delta Chat will never have, because no one uses it, and it's not even interesting enough for spammers. This further proves my point about Delta being an obscure messenger.
misleading blog posts about how Signal "doesn't depend on phone numbers now"
I don't know how this is misleading, the blog post literally says that you still need a phone number to register: https://signal.org/blog/phone-number-privacy-usernames/#:~:text=(you%20will%20still%20need%20a%20phone%20number%20to%20sign%20up%20for%20signal)
@Andromxda it is pointless to discuss this with you when it is obvious you have never used Delta Chat and can't make an informed opinion, the reason there are not spammers in Delta Chat and there is no need for phone numbers or captcha is because people need to encrypt to be able to send messages so they can't abuse the server to send spam randomly, they first need the targets to send them an invitation link that would allow to send messages to them
@Andromxda about the blog post, I don't remember which of them was or if they updated it but IRL a Signal fanboy was insisting to me that it was no longer required and I had to reinstall Signal in front of him to try out and see it was not real. Looking quickly around I find some blog post from other sites that frame it like that:
@Andromxda
also forward secrecy is pointless if you don't use disappearing messages, to get the keys they need to get your phone and then they also have all the message history, who is doing this while what they want is too keep all the messages and family pictures?
About "cryptographic deniability" tell me one, JUST ONE, judge that has accepted this justification in court?
@Andromxda
Sealed sender is also pointless if they can relate your IP to your phone number, and it is opportunistic not even warrantied
And have you ever tried to track if your messages are sent with sealed sender? It is super hard to know, first you need to enable some advanced setting to show the icon and then it is only displayed if you manually select the message and check the info, you can't easily see it for all messages without manual action every time
@adbenitez @Andromxda
Signal does not advertise deniability and never committed to offer it. Apparently it does not hold already since the introduction of PQC and this is without analyzing group chats which have more complicated key management than multi-device 1:1 chats ("sender keys"): https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/741
If you need deniability, use #OTR which is designed to offer this property unlike Signal protocol.
@Andromxda @mollyim Thanks, I didn't know this. I often don't carry both phones at the same time, so it still doesn't fully cover my use case, but it's better than what Signal offers by default.
@Andromxda @sesivany @mollyim I'm using molly with few linked devices, but none of them is another mobile phone, which was the original question. Perhaps somebody can confirm linking another mobile device is possible.
(Mind you same as Matrix no history will be visible on new device.)
I confirm : you can link two mobile device together with #Molly
@sesivany
Setting up iPad as a linked device was available since at least 2019, which technically counts as a mobile device:
https://signal.org/blog/signal-for-ipad/
@mollyim additionally allows setting up Android phone as a linked device since 2023: https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android/pull/157
@sesivany @mollyim
At least for Signal Desktop this is not the case, my Signal Desktop works autonomously when the phone is offline and I know users who only use Signal Desktop and keep the phone just so they have an account registered.
It was a problem with WhatsApp previously that you had to keep your primary device online, but now even they have autonomous desktop app that keeps working without a phone.
@sesivany @link2xt @mollyim In general you have to use primary device from time-to-time (once a month?), but they are totally independent. Just be aware until it's delivered to all linked devices messages are kept on server (or until it expires which is something like 2 weeks maybe month). You could also use matrix Signal bridge, which you probably know and then there are no limits on devices, or molly as mentioned earlier or one of other forks which allow this.
@sesivany I really recommend you to give a try to #DeltaChat anonymous login without any phone number or any private data required, you can create as many accounts and add as many devices as you want, all work smoothly no encryption problems with multi-device etc and it has a better interface than #matrix on the level of #WhatsApp and #Telegram super user-friendly and painless to onboard family and friends
And you LITERALLY own your data and can browse it and search it offline
@adbenitez @sesivany Matrix does not have any user interface. It is the protocol that clients like Element use. There are many available: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/ #matrix
@adbenitez @sesivany I like deltachat, but it's hard to switch people over, anyway, Arcane is nice client and thanks for that adb :)
@sesivany It's not like that, look at https://signal.org/blog/a-synchronized-start-for-linked-devices I normally use 3 devices.
@phx yes, already explained in other comments. I (and AFAIK many people) were under assumption that the messages were routed through the primary device. IMHO "linking device" isn't a great name for the feature in this regard.
@sesivany yeah linked devices on signal work well on their own. The only problem I have they get unlinked after 30 days without use. Also no sync of past messages is annoying. Threema is better in this respect but has other disadvantages.
@Curaj @sesivany history sync is "Coming soon tm" (in beta) https://community.signalusers.org/t/help-us-test-desktop-history-syncing/65452 it's also part of matrix bridge already.