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@cstross that is an absolutely fucking brilliant way of describing the abomination that is systemd. I may have to borrow that!

@quixoticgeek@social.v.st @cstross@wandering.shop but Unix was a looong time ago. Things change! UNIX also didn’t have a GUI per se back then, should we give those up too?

Mi d you, people should use whatever system they like, but why is it so important to aim to destroy or invalidate the ones you don’t like?

@hector @quixoticgeek @cstross
Nobody would be attacking systemd if systemd stood on its own merits rather than being forced down our throats like a Microsoft product.

@leeloo @hector @cstross and if it stuck to being an init system. The fact it's trying to replace the whole OS can go fuck itself. My init system doesn't need to control DNS. Or firewalls. Or time. Or logging. Etc...

@quixoticgeek @hector @cstross
Systemd can be the Microsoft Office of init systems if it wants to, as long as it doesn't interfere with the rest of us running Linux without it.

But the first time it or a part of it (e.g. elogind) gets installed without me explicitly asking for it, it becomes malware.

And so far, it's up there with McAfee and Quicktime for Windows.

@leeloo @hector @cstross I'm very worried about the intent to replace grub with systemd. It's like a cancer metastasizing into every part of the system

@quixoticgeek @leeloo @hector @cstross FWIW, systemd-boot is an entirely independent project, formerly called "gummiboot", that just got sucked in somehow.

It works and it's conceptually quite simple. Simpler than GRUB, for which I have no love.

I tried it and it broke my laptop. Turns out, keeping `vmlinuz` & `initramfs` in the ESP takes a lot of space, and [G]Parted can't manipulate FAT32 partitions that are as small as ESPs typically are.

But if you have a nice big ESP, say a gig, it seems all right.

@lproven I have a separate ext2 /boot partition, and rEFInd is perfectly capable of booting all my Linux kernels with their initramfs from that. This worked very nicely on the 2011 MacBook Pro I used for 14 years and now works very nicely on my Framework 16 Notebook.

@quixoticgeek @leeloo @hector @cstross